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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 11:11 am 
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The Babylon Project splits it into agility and co-ordination.
Spacemaster/Rolrmaster split it into Agility (manual dexterity/litheness) and Quickness (reation times and reflexes).
Ars Magica into dexterity and quickness.
The players option books for AD&D 2nd edition also split dex into 2 stats.

Deadlands splits it into 3. Deftness, nimbleness and quickness.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 12:10 pm 
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Ha! I forgot The Most Complex RPG Eva!

Aftermath!

The normal range for humans in Aftermath! is 1 to 40 for all of the attributeds below, but attributes can go much higher for other creatures:

Wit (WT)
Will (WL)
Strength (STR)
Deftness (DFT)
Speed (SPD)
Health (HLH)

Each attribute has an effect die, depending on the atrribute's value:

Code:
ATTRIBUTE GROUP CHART
Attribute Rating   0 1-4 5-14 15-24 25-34 35-44 45-54  55-64    65-74
Group Number       0  1   2     3     4     5     6      7       8
Effect Die      none 1D3 1D6   1D10  2D6   2D10  2D10+1 2D10+2  2D10+2
Attributes are generated using a points allocation system.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:57 pm 
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Yes rust, but with HarnMaster, you did not need worry that your character would be dead from a failed roll during generation :)


Also, HarnMaster had no true hitpoints. Depending on the skill, the weapon and the roll, you might kill a human out right. Combat was deadly.

Dave Chase

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 6:18 pm 
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Yep, and Harnmaster is still my favourite fantasy / medieval history role-
playing game, I really enjoy that degree of gritty realism despite all of my
jokes about it - but it is extremely difficult to win new players for such a
complex game, because someone used to Savage Worlds and thelike ta-
kes a look at Harnmaster's character generation and flees in terror ... :(


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 12:23 am 
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Ah, well rust, if ever we can get together some day, I will be happy to play some HarnMaster with you.

And tell them that Character generation is like stuffing 15yrs of role playing into one 8 hour game session. :lol:

:D

Dave Chase

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:23 pm 
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As for a sensible range it should really depend on how it will have effect mechanically and whether you want to randomly determine the score.

Traveller and DnD focus on the random probability, so the range is larger than it needs to be. Traveller has 7 DMs (-3,-2,-1,0,+1,+2,+3), so mechanically only needs a range of 7, and DnD a range of 9.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 1:54 pm 
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As an aside about the splitting up dex/agility concept. Games should simplify as much as possible to prevent bloat, but games can and do differenciate without adding more stats. For example in D&D you have a dex score, but this is a separate score than your initiative modifier or your reflexes score/save. Manual dexterity is a dex check. Leaping out the way is a reflex save/defence. Thinking quickly enough to take an action can be an initiative check.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:59 pm 
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Using a small number of basic stats that are randomly generated and then using formulas to derive other stats is a good idea that has worked in other games. BRP uses that idea as well. If done right, it can feel right as well.

Space Opera used Technical Aptitudes as stats. I THINK it was Mechanical Aptitude and Electronic Aptitude. Those could be handy stats to add. It could be shortened to Technical Aptitude if you like so that you could have all those home-grown tinkerers and Anakin Skywalker.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:35 pm 
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Not so keen on the random generation anymore.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:40 pm 
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Personally, I like Point Buy when I am creating a character for ME, but random stat generation when making NPCs.

I think the perfect system would have BOTH.

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