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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 12:48 pm 
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DOH! :oops:

I just realized that AHL's AP's represent 1/2 second of action.
In AHL, you get to spend 6 AP's in each of 5 action phases in a 15 second turn.

Divide AHL's AP costs by 2 and you'll be good ( mostly )
I do intend on changing some costs for attacks and defense, but movement costs should still be good

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 Post subject: Re: [MT] Ishmael's stuff
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:21 am 
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I've hit a roadblock on my combat variant; melee.

Running a game using guns should be very close to AHL with differences
mainly in wounding and perhaps flow.
I'll pull out an old deckplan sheet, some counters and do a playtest and
post it by this weekend to show how the start of my idea is coming along.
But I'm thinking my real bugaboo is the manner in which melee works into all
this.

The problem is in the way I use stats and endurance to figure AP's and how
damage changes those numbers.
Melee pen and damage are dependant on strength AND the number of APs spent
on the attack. No suprise there except that it will mean weapons will need a
large table to prevent having to have a calculator at the player's side; noone
wants that!
The manner of blocking and parrying needs to be worked out.
One idea is to make blocks cause the player to lose his 'ready' stance, so
he'll have to spend an AP to 'ready' before an attack or other weapon action.
Parries would be more difficult to do but not cause the player to lose his
'ready' status thus allowing him to counter-attack/riposte immediately. I like
this idea best, but I haven't found a quick/easy way to handle it in practice...
the game might end up looking like "En Guard" + dice.
The other idea is to abstract those things because blocks would be used
against swing attacks and parries against thrusting attacks. This would punt the
whole issue.

So how do I block/parry?
The AP for defensive actions would depend on the weapon/shield used; a light
epee is quicker than a great sword. But then I have to consider odd
combinations, such as blocking a battle-ax with a bowie knife. Perhaps a
successful block/parry subtracts damage equal to the 'momentum damage' for the
defending weapon using the AP's that the player puts torward defense...that and
extra based on how successful the parry was ( amount the success role was beaten
by ). This way, a bowie knife CAN block/parry a battle-ax, but the defenderI
really has to put a lot more effort into it. Or the battle-ax can cut through a
bowie knife that is weakly held.
I like this idea, but it depends on if I can work out a quick and easy way
to determine the 'momentum damage' of a weapon for a given strength input.

AP's for attack and defense must be allocated for a 5 second turn. During
the turn, those AP's may be spent on indivdual attacks or grouped until all AP's
are spent.
Defense AP's can be spent against individual attacks or together against
single attacks.
Parries cost one AP per attack and cause that attack to fail regardless of
the strength behind the attack.
Feints cost 1 AP and can be used to force an enemy to 'use up' their
defense AP's.
I am considering and might try a 'coolness under fire' idea where
blocks/parries must be attempted unless a determination roll is made. I hope
this simulates the ability of an attacker to focus on the attack and not
flinch ( the amount the roll is missed by becomes a neg DM for the attack ). I
have no idea how to work this idea in though without moving to a master phase
count system like Car Wars. Maybe I'll have a flash of inspiration during a
quick playtest.
I will focus mostly on play sequence and task rolls during my playtest. MT
requires 2 seperate rolls for a melee attack ( confrontation to see if the
attack can hit ( not blocked ), then a roll to see if it does hit and how much
the damage will be.
As always, the defender's speed is a neg dm. Evasion doubles that speed
-dm? We'll see how that can work. ( hmmmm evasion is a movement, not an
action...attack/block while evading? Speed is neg dm for action, doubled if
evading ? hmmm )

To sum things up... I am stuck mostly until I work out a quick way to determine
a melee weapon's damage value given the weapon's characteristics and the
strength of the wielder and the AP's spent on the attack or block.


oh...I'll be adding "sprint" to the movement options
6m per AP..no other actions possible ( swinging arms while spinting makes it
impossible ) Sprinter cannot change facing/direction while sprinting.
Using Endurance in the way I proscribe, this gives a AAA777 human a time of
just over 10 sec to run 100m... but he'll be spent and rubber legged afterwards
in dire need of rest ( 0 end left over... effectively out of action until a tu
rn with no action to rest ).
Enbumberance subtracts an AP per multiple of str in kg's carried. ( gotta
try this..might not be best way )


work on my lil project continues......
sheesh..what's next?..a spreadsheet to cough up weapon stats for guns and
swords?...yes

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 Post subject: Re: [MT] Ishmael's stuff
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:08 am 
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never did my lil playtest for gunfight and movement....real life sucks sometimes
started work on melee weapon spreadsheet
decided to use material list for its density and cost...I'll just fudge and say the entire weapon is made from the material for simplicity
I'll use the toughness rating to fudge how sharp of an edge the weapon can have.
tougher material can hold a sharper edge.

work continues for now

still debating between a master phasing count like Car Wars
or just do 5 second turns with MT style interrupts
whichever is faster in practice I suppose

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 Post subject: Re: [MT] Ishmael's stuff
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:11 am 
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okay
here's a quick spreadsheet for trying out melee weapon designing

have at it, but don't expect anything like what the official rules say about weapon stats
( I think those were made up to be cool..not accurate, but thats just my opinion which I can't back up with facts really )

the sheet was made in openoffice 2.4 and saved as an .xls, so I can't guarantee it will come out the same way as I made it
...but it'll be usable.
If things work out, I'll keep adding to it until I have guns and bows and everything in it ( thank goodness this is a hobby and I don't have to keep any deadlines, eh? )

http://moukotiger.googlepages.com/meleexxx.xls

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 Post subject: Re: [MT] Ishmael's stuff
PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:28 pm 
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I've been considering how to use the standard list of stats in my own rules variant for Traveller. My rules variant is based on the MegaTraveller task system with combat being handled with a variant of the Azhanti High Lightning game rules. As such, I will be keeping many of the standard methods to keep it mostly compatible, yet expand upon a few of them.

My idea is to combine the standard stats in ways to introduce new stats that are better suited to simulate different actions. These new stats will be the average of 2 other stats. For example, Dex and End would combine to give steadiness of hand, such as might be used during surgeries or rifle marksmanship. Thus a Dex-8 and an End-10 character would have a steadiness of 9 for the sake of determining stat dm's.

(Dex+Str)/2 would relate to quickness
(Dex+End)/2 would relate to steadiness
Dex by itself relates to balance

The base stats are used for other purposes in my combat variant and character damage is handled slightly different as well.
Given the 3 base stats, (Str+Dex)/3 (round to nearest) gives the number of Action Points a player has to use in a 5 second turn. This makes an Action Point approximately equal to 1 second worth of actions by Joe Normal (str-7, dex-7, end-7, and AP-5).

Stat dm's are equal to (stat/3)-1. This give a slightly greater variance in stat capabilities without putting too much emphasis on them over skills and it also retains the same range of dm's for Joe Normal as the original MegaTraveller rules so that the task system won't require any changes (although I made minor changes to it anyways).

In combat, damage is spread to the different stats in 1d6 increments with each 1d6 applied to a physical stat chosen randomly. Damage takes effect immediately for determining stat dm's and Action Points. Characters lose consciousness only when End reaches 0. This means it’s possible to be wounded, unable to move or act ( AP=0 ) while still remaining awake. It also means that it possible to be knocked out completely while suffering no damage except to End. Damage to End cannot be recovered except by medical healing. End lost due to fatigue can be recovered from rest when no actions are taken.

End can be lost to fatigue in 3 ways. Running, melee combat and 'spending' it to gain strength temporarily for a single 5 second turn as a way to simulate an adrenaline rush. This uses the End spent to gain extra AP's to be used for bursts of speed or to carry heavier loads for that turn; good for dragging a wounded ally out of the line of fire, but leaving the character exhausted afterwards and sucking wind until a short rest to catch breath is found.

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Last edited by Ishmael on Sun May 14, 2017 4:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: [MT] Ishmael's stuff
PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:29 pm 
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I also plan on using the base mental stats in a similar fashion by combining them to form more useful secondary stats for determining task dm’s. I also plan on reducing or eliminating the stat “Soc” and replacing it with “Pers” as a measure of the strength of a character’s personality.

I feel that “Soc” is nearly worthless in its purpose of describing a fundamental characteristic of a character and it would be much better if written into the character’s background. Its purpose in the MT game rules seems to be in deciding if the character is a noble and how much should be spent to sustain an appropriate lifestyle.

“Pers” would be a measure of the strength of a character’s personality. A low value might indicate shyness or insecurity while a high value might indicate a cocky attitude or a strongly type-A personality. It might work in a similar fashion to “Charisma” with Vargr in interpersonal tasks where a forceful personality might overwhelm a weaker one, but it is not quite the same in that it does not change much as it defines a character’s personality and is not a direct indicator of how others view him.

“Pers” will be combined with other base stats to give a varied, yet consistent set of dm’s for interpersonal and other tasks. This follows the same idea as put forward using the physical stats earlier.
(Pers+Int)/2 would indicate how likable and persuasive a character is
(Pers+Edu)/2 would indicate a level of how classy or suave a character is
(Pers+End)/2 would indicate the character’s determination
*this is a change from MT where Int+End indicates determination*

In combat situations, “Pers” would be similar to initiative in Striker, and (Pers+End)/2 would be similar to morale

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Last edited by Ishmael on Sun May 14, 2017 4:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: [MT] Ishmael's stuff
PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:33 pm 
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I'm just slowly adding my ideas for rules changes as I write them down for my own TU and game.
I will hopefully include examples for CG, tasks, and combat soon.
I'll write up my minor changes to the task system tonight.

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 Post subject: Re: [MT] Ishmael's stuff
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:44 pm 
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Code:
   I am making two minor changes to the ordinary MT task system. I am changing the target numbers for each task to follow a progression that is easier for me to think about and I am making a natural 12 on 2d6 mean a success, regardless of how minor.
   The standard progression of target numbers for tasks is 3,7,11,15 which makes each task increment equal to 4, with a natural 2 being a fumble. I much prefer a target number progression of 3 giving a progression of 3,6,9,12,15, etc. I find this to be easier to remember. This change is a matter of personal preference only as I like the 'symmetry' considering how often the number 3 as come up during my tinkerings. I will use the task labels as follows...

    3    easy                         3 simple 
    6    routine                      7 routine
    9    difficult          vs.      11 difficult
   12    formidable                  15 formidable
   15    staggering                  19 impossible
   18    hopeless
   21    impossible

   A natural 2 is a fumble regardless of dm's or task's target number.
 
        I will say that a natural 12 is a success decided upon by the referee and which is minor. This gives players a slim hope that their action can have a measure of success, even against hopeless odds even if the success is not what they intended.

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 Post subject: Re: [MT] Ishmael's stuff
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:47 pm 
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   I have come up with a way to merge an AP based combat system like Azhanti High Lighting and 'interrupts' as in MegaTraveller combat. This will give a nice flow to combat sessions without resorting to very short turn lengths ( SPI's AirWar ) or master phasing count tables ( CarWars, Advanced Small Arms Spectrum, or Sword's Path Glory ).
   Interrupts provide a chance for the opposing force to react to character actions and provide a means to suppress that enemy's reaction with covering fire, for example. The degree of success will be determined by a task roll and the amount by which the task number is surpassed.
   To interrupt a character's turn should be have a difficulty of "routine" if the interrupted player is in the interrupter's forward arc and "difficult" if in the interrupter's side arcs. It is a confrontational task with AP's and tactics being the dm's.
   If the task roll fails, then the amount that the task roll failed by is the number of AP's the interrupter loses although he can still act on his turn as per the MT interrupt procedure.
   If the task roll succeeds, the amount by which it succeeds is subtracted from the interrupted's AP total and that becomes the number of AP's the interrupted may spend before the interrupter may act. The interrupter subtracts that number from his AP total to determine how many AP's has to spend during his interrupt. After the interrupt is completed, the interrupted character finishes spending his remaining AP's, assuming that he wasn't wounded so as to have a lower AP total ( damage takes effect immediately for purposes of AP and dm determination ).
   Example:
   Sgt Andy with 6Ap's and tactics-1 steps into a passageway to move down it. Mr. Enemy with 7AP's and tactics-0 attempts an interrupt ( routine, dm=+7-6(AP difference)+0-1(tactics difference)=0, and rolls 8.
   This is 2 more than the target number, so Sgt Andy can perform (6-2) 4 AP's which include the initial AP spent moving into the passageway ( leaving 3 AP's ). Sgt Andy may react to Mr.Enemy's interupt with those 3 AP's by ducking back into cover or by sprinting or even returning fire. After those 3 AP's are spent by Sgt Andy, Mr.Enemy has 2 AP's he may spend ( initial 6-4=2 ). Mr.Enemy brings his SMG up ( 1AP ) and wants to spray the passageway.
   Cpl Bobby with 5 AP's and tactics-0 attempts to interrupt Mr.Enemy's turn ( routine. dm=(5-7)+(0-0)=-2 and rolls a 5. He fails to interrupt and it costs him 3 AP's leaving him 2 AP's to spend when he takes his normal turn ( 5-2-6=-3, the task roll with dm's missed the target number by 3 ).
   Mr.Enemy shoots and hits Sgt Andy, grazing him and the damage ends up lowering Sgt.Andy's AP to 5 ( damage takes effect immediately ). This leaves 1 AP as Sgt Andy has already spent 4. If Sgt Andy had taken enough damage to drop his AP count lower than 4, his turn would have ended then. Mr.Enemy's interrupt is over and Sgt Andy moves towards cover with his last 1AP.
   All interrupts are over.
   Cpl Bobby takes his normal turn and uses his 2 remaining AP's to shoot at Mr.Enemy wounding him badly. Too bad that Cpl Bobby was too slow......
   Next turn begins...

   That's how it works.
   More play-testing is needed.
   A way to determine when a character is knocked down by his wounds or other impacts needs to be made (damage will be determined from momentum for projectiles as well as with melee weapons, so that should play a role in knockdown/knock-back
   Methods to work melee combat into this still need to be examined.
   Maybe a character should have the option of providing dedicated covering fire whereupon he can do nothing else and can interrupt any target in his forward firing arc until his AP's run out AND drops the interrupt task level to "easy". If the interactions become too complex, it might be easier to use a master phasing count table instead.

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 Post subject: Re: [MT] Ishmael's stuff
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:28 am 
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I'm not sure I've really 'got' your AP system there, but it looks a little complicated to me. I do agree that MGT needs something like this, as the system breaks down without it once you move past conventional small arms. I really must get MGT CSC and have a look how it's handled in there. But I prefer something very simple like a penetration value for ammunition types.

Anyway, carry on! :mrgreen:

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